Looking for information on my grandfathers ships

[sammyb]

Hello - I have just managed to get hold of my grandfathers service record and there are a number of entries I'm hoping someone can help me with. There are usual lines with Ganges and Europa etc but there are some other entries I'm interested in but I'm struggling to understand the handwriting so maybe someone can help decipher?
Any information would be greatly appreciated as to the ships.

looks like "Fortitide (andre et Louis)"

there is a line looks like "Narbel (?) (Parent Help)" - difficult to work out the handwriting

there is a line looks like "jrwell (MMS 288)"

Any info and help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Sam

[Nick Clark]

The following are RN Shore Establishments:

HMS FORTITUDE was the naval base at Ardrossan, commissioned in 1940 and paid off in 1945.
HMS IRWELL was a Trawler Base at Birkenhead, commissioned on15 August 1942 and paid
off on 16 July 1945.

Can't quite figure out 'Narbel' at the moment but looking at possibilities.

Vessels:

MMS 288 -
(Motor Minesweeper 288)
1942 - 132nd MS Flotilla at Liverpool & Sheerness
1943 - 138th MS Flotilla at Lowestoft
1945 - 143rd MS Flotilla at Swansea
1946 - 102nd MS Flotilla at Sheerness

HMS Andre et Louis
Pennant FY 1798
Minesweeping Trawler
Seized at Plymouth during 'Operation Grab' 3rd July 1940
Commissioned 3 Jul 1940
Built in 1907 by De la Brosse et Fouche (Nantes, France)
Displacement: 284 tons

Returned 3 April 1945.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions

Nick Clark
http://www.rnpatrolservice.org.uk
(http://www.harry-tates.org.uk)

[sammyb]

Thank you - thats very helpful.

The "Narbet (Parent Help)" line is difficult to decipher. I'm not sure if it does say "Narbet". I've looked again and it looks like in the brackets it might be (P_____r Help).

Also - I'm told that he volunteered for duty on midget submarines and was also present on the DDay landings on a rocket assault ship. Is there anyway to find out more about these aspects? He also may have been in Appledore in Devon just prior to D-Day?

Thanks,
Sam

[DavidH]

I think that 'Narbel' or 'Nabet' is actually VARBEL.

This was the name of the base at Port Bannatyne for training midget submarines (X-craft); they had an 82 ton former Lowestoft drifter attached to them named ...PRESENT HELP, which I think is the other name.

[Nick Clark]

David
Excellent work!

Sam
We are always gald to be of help on this forum.

Nick Clark
http://www.rnpatrolservice.org.uk
(http://www.harry-tates.org.uk)

[Rob Hoole]

Well done David!

According to Ben Warlow's 'Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy', VARBEL is believed to have been named after Cdrs C H Varley DSC and T I S Bell involved in the midget SM concept. Started at Kames Bay, Isle of Bute.

From 'Above Us The Waves' by C E T Warren and James Benson:

During the autumn and winter of 1941-42 things progressed slowly but steadily. In September, HM Drifter Present Help was attached to act as a tender to X.3. Her Commanding Officer, Lieutenant 'George' Washington, RNVR (now Lt Cdr H E W Washington RNVR) was a former submariner, setting the pattern for the selection of non-operational officers for the flotilla. In November, a number of submarine ratings joined the complement of the drifter. Three weeks later she was lying off Itchenor, in Sussex, where two experimental side-cargoes were exploded, making a satisfactory upheaval. Similar experiments continued during December, and all the time X.3 was nearing completion. During January 1942 there was a visit from Sir Max Horton; it was so pleasant and informal that it could that it could scarcely be called an inspection; experiments were carried out with a separate "W and D" [Wet & Dry submarine escape chamber] in the Solent and elsewhere; and Commander T I S Bell, DSC, RN joined the flotilla. With Commander Cromwell Varley, DSO, RN, the designer of X.3, this officer was later commemorated in the naming of the first midget-submarine shore-base, HMS Varbel, but from his first arrival in the late winter Commander Bell was in charge of personnel and training...

...Ardtaraig House, the shooting-lodge at the head of the loch [Striven] which had been commandeered to form the flotilla's advanced base, lay abeam when [the depot ship] Alecto anchored that last evening in August [1942]. A few days later Present Help arrived to relieve her, and with the move into Ardtaraig Alecto was able to return to her other duties. The Hydro [Kyles of Bute Hydropathic Hotel] had been commissioned HMS Varbel four days previously, the shooting lodge automatically became Varbel II...

Present Help was later involved in rendering assistance to several X-craft involved in training accidents.

(Edited to add annotations in brackets.)

[sammyb]

Thank you everyone! That is extremely interesting and useful. Yes - it must be HMS Varbel and Present Help.

Interestingly I have looked again on his service record and there is a kind of character sign of in december 1942 by a "H E W Washington".

I've had that book "Above us the waves" on my list to buy for ages - I'll get it now.

I was wondering about sources of further information. Are there books you would recommend? Are there more specialist detailed books or naval diaries, records of ships movements or service etc or something like that which can be accessed - for further details on any of those ships movements?

[Rob Hoole]

Hello Sam,

One of the best sources for ships' movements and activities can be found at http://www.naval-history.net/. Just type the ship's name into the search box on the left hand side of the home page.

The best sources of information about the MMS (Motor Minesweepers otherwise known as 'Mickey Mouse') are:

Minesweeper - The Role of the Motor Minesweeper in World War II by Michael J. Melvin BEM.
Out Sweeps by Paul Lund and Harry Ludlam
Allied Minesweeping in World War 2 by Peter Elliott

Particularly good sources of information about the RNPS trawlers are:

Trawlers Go To War by Paul Lund and Harry Ludlam
The Lilliput Fleet by A. Cecil Hampshire

Information about the exploits of the X-craft can be found in Above Us The Waves, as mentioned before, plus:

Underwater Warriors by Paul Kemp
Frogman V.C. by Ian Fraser
The Frogmen by T. J. Waldron and James Gleeson
By Sea and by Stealth by Burke Wilkinson

[Nick Clark]

Hello Sam

If you wanted to research a little more deeper into the 'ships' movements you could look at the original Admiralty documents. These can been ordered and viewed at the National Archives. Kew (reference ADM199/2545 to ADM199/2577 in alphabetical order).

Rob has mentioned some good books already and here are some I have in my own collection. If you want to find out more about the RNPS then any one of the following titles would make an excellent start. Sadly many are now 'out of print' so I would try ebay and second hand book web sites such as http://www.usedbooksearch.co.uk

if it's a few stories and recollections you're interested in then, you'll find several on this web site at http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranscontents.htm

Glory Passed them By
Brookes, Ewart
Jarrolds, 1958
The minesweeping work of the Royal Naval Patrol Service during WW2. The author was in command of a minesweeper at Dover in the early days of WW2 and relates the stranglehold effect of the mining of home coastal waters (illustrated)

Proud Waters
Brookes, Ewart
Jarrolds, 1954; reprinted Elmfield Press, 1976; paperback: Arrow Books, 1969; Sheridan Book Co., 1995
A novel, the author was in command of a minesweeper at Dover during WW2, this is a novel of minesweeping of the 'War Channel' and graphicly depicts the day-to-day life of the Royal Naval Patrol Service, under frequent air and E-Boat attack during WW2, described by Douglas Reeman: '...the best novel ever written about minesweepers during the Second World War',

Harry Tate's Navy
Brown, Jimmy
paperback original, privately published, 1994
Jimmy was a good friend of mine and he kindly submitted his story to this web site and helped me a great deal to set up this project. See part of his story at http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales1.htm

Allied Minesweeping in World War 2
Elliott, Peter
Patrick Stephens, 1979,
An account all types of mines and the methods of minesweeping etc., illustrated,

Churchill's Pirates and More Tales from Churchill's Pirates
Featherbe, F. C. (compiler)
large format paperback original: North Kent Books, 1994
A collection of personal recollections of WW2 experiences from the veterans of the Royal Naval Patrol Service, illustrated,

The Terriers of the Fleet - The Fighting Trawlers
'First Lieutenant'
Hutchinson, ND [c1943],
An excellent well-written account of the experiences of the anti-submarine trawlers Saint Loman during the Norwegian campaign and Arab in the early days of the Battle of the Atlantic. illustrated (rare)

Battle of the East Coast 1939-1945
Foynes, J.P.
privately published 1994
A well researched and comprehensive study of WW2 on the coast and in the North Sea illustrated,

The Hidden Menace
Griffiths, Maurice GM, Lt. RNVR
Conway Maritime Press, 1993,
Countermeasures and sweeping during WW2, illustrated

Lilliput Fleet
Hampshire, A. Cecil
William Kimber, 1957; paperback: Kimber 1959; New English Library 1976, (hardback version rare)
An account of the of the Royal Naval Patrol Service during WW2 and a good compainion to 'Trawlers Go To War' - illustrated - Something of a classic for the RNPS history buff but like 'Trawlers Go To War' some of the author's input does tend to be economical with the truth and glorify a little.

The Minesweeper's Victory
Hardy, Hilbert
paperback original: Keydex, Weybridge, 1976,

His Majesty's Minesweepers
HMSO
large format paperback original: HMSO, 1943,
An official war-time publication- illustrated,

Port War
Jenkins, Ford
Cowell, Ipswich, ND [c1947]; paperback reprint: Panda Books 1984
A photographic record of Lowestoft during WW2, illustrated, (rare)

Coxswain in the Northern Convoys
Kerslake, S. A.
Wm. Kimber, 1984,
Memoirs of the authors time with the Royal Naval Patrol Service 1939-45, illustrated, - [i]probably the best book of it's kind I have read on the personal accounts of a sailor in the RNPS.
[/i]

Warships of World War II - Part 6 Trawlers
Lenton, H.T. and Colledge, J. J.
paperback original: Ian Allan,1964
Essential for researching these WW2 vessels.

Mine and Countermine
Low, Professor A. M.
Hutchinson and Co., 1940,
A history of mine warfare, mines and their uses, counter measures, methods of laying and sweeping together with experiences of the weapon in current use during the early stages of WW2, illustrated.

Out Sweeps! - The Story of the Minesweepers in World War II
Lund, Paul and Ludlam, Harry
W. Foulsham and Co, 1978; paperback: New English Library 1979,
From personal accounts, the story of the minesweepers of WW2. illustrated (hardback)

Trawlers go to War
Lund, Paul and Ludlam, Harry
W. Foulsham and Co, ND c1971; paperback: New English Library 1972,
From personal accounts, the story of the Royal Naval Patrol Service in WW2 illustrated (hardback), - Something of a classic for the RNPS history buff but like 'The Lilliput Fleet' some of the authors' input does tend to be economical with the truth and glorify a little.

Being in all Respects Ready for Sea
Male, Herbert Gordon (Bertie)
Janus Publishing,1992,
A book with incredible detail. Bertie's personal accounts of WW2 from Ordinary Seaman to full Lieutenant in command, from RNPS minesweepers in home waters, an Antarctic whaler in the Mediterranean (HMS Cocker, torpedoed) and landing craft of various types, line drawings, (rare)
Bertie kindly submitted part of his story on this web site and you can find his accounts at http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales5.htm

Mainly in Minesweepers
McAra, Charles
Leach and Co.,1991,
Commissioned in the RNVR the author served with 9th flotilla minesweepers out of Portland, Portsmouth and Harwich before transfer to 13th flotilla for the allied landings in North Africa, Sicily, Salerno and other Mediterranean areas, illustrated,


The Role of the Motor Minesweeper in World War II
Melvin, Michael
Square One Publications, Worcester, 1992,
Excellent book as previously mentioned (rare), illustrated,

The Coast is Clear - The Story of the BYMS
Minett, Eric
large and thick paperback original: privately published, 2005
A very detailed account of the class of small minesweepers, built for the RN in the USA, known as BYMSs - illustrated, (rare)

Royal Navy Trawlers: Part 1, Admiralty Trawler
Toghill, Gerald
Maritime Books, Liskeard, Cornwall, 2003

Royal Navy Trawlers: Part 2, Requisitioned Trawlers
Toghill, Gerald
Maritime Books, Liskeard, Cornwall, 2004
Both these books by Toghill are essential reading and good enough to be forgiven for the odd research error.

Fishermen at War
Walmsley, Leo
Collins, 1941; reprinted White Lion, 1977,
Slightly off the subject of HM trawlers but never the less related. An extreemly moving and awe-inspiring book. (once again now sadly rare)

Nick Clark
http://www.rnpatrolservice.org.uk
(http://www.harry-tates.org.uk)

[sammyb]

Thank you gentlemen for the extremely comprehensive responses.

There is a lot for me to go on!